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> … took advantage of a community…

It would be helpful for everyone if that community would pause before contributing to code bases with licenses which allow for that. MIT, BSD, Apache, …

It would be helpful for them because they’ll know what they’re getting into. For us because we won’t have to see this tragedy unfold time and time again. And for all open source users because more efforts will be directed towards programs with licenses that protect end users. GPL, AGPL, …

It will be a little worse for companies seeking free labor. A price I’m willing to pay.


It is a faithful translation of the original Dutch. Dutch is structurally very similar to English so this type of nuance carries over pretty much intact.

Dutch: “Dat was niet enkel onzorgvuldig, het was fout.”

English: “That was not just careless—it was wrong.”

I’d say the only difference is the em dash.

Whether you consider it proof of AI is up to y’all.


I'm not disagreeing it's a bad translation. Just saying that it's not the source

I mean that whatever signal you think you get from the sentence structure was not introduced by (potentially) automated translation. The sentence structure is precisely the same in the original Dutch.

I strongly recommend having a look at the mailing list to get some context:

https://sourceforge.net/p/sbcl/mailman/sbcl-devel/thread/CAF...

and

https://sourceforge.net/p/sbcl/mailman/sbcl-devel/thread/CAC...

This will certainly speak to some people taking part in some of the more controversial discussions taking place on HN recently, to put it mildly.


Hmm, must have missed that ; tried to find. There was a SBCL discussion a few days ago but didn't read much controversial things in that? I'm a fanboy though so possibly i'm blind to these things.

I think he was referring to "Begone, slop men", which is the right answer to this.

Idk if I can quite place it but by the time it gets to, "I've created github issues for each section of your reviews.." in the second link its just so infuriating. Just want to shake them and say "for the love of god just talk to them"!

I would ignore any HN content written by a ghost writer or editor. I guess I would flag compiler output but I’m not sure we’re talking about the same thing?

I’m on the internet for human beings. I already read a newspaper for editors and books for ghostwriters.

Not for long though, HN is dying. Just hanging around here waiting for the next thing , I guess…


Sorry man, the internet has died and is not being replaced by anything but an authoritarian nightmare.

My only guess is if you want actual humans, you'll have to do this IRL. Of course we has humans have got used to the 24/7 availability and scale of the internet so this is going to be a problem as these meetings won't provide the hyperactive environment we want.

Any other digital system will be gamed in one way or another.


In a conversation about magit, this is comparing jumping off a sidewalk to powered flight.


(tangent of the decade : prefixing your debug printfs with NOCOMMIT helps catching them before commit :) sample precommit hook and GitHub ci action I wrote is at https://github.com/nobssoftware/nocommit but it’s just a grep)


Nix doesn't make sense if all you're going to use it for is building Docker images. It only makes sense if you're all in in the first place. Then Docker images are free.


If the lesson by now isn’t “be careful wishing for powers you don’t want the other side to use against you” then I don’t know what will drive that home…


The law applying to powerful high level people is a good thing. The state where law binds only weak people and can be safely broken by rich and powerful is the bad one.

As of now, the law applies to me. I am on that "other side". It officially does not apply to Trump at all. And billionaires and administration can safely ignore it, although there is at least pretension of the law technically maybe applying to them.


Which actual law should send them to jail?

The law is constantly applied to Trump and his administration. The judicial branch keeps reining him in: National guard, ice, tariffs—-literally TFA for Pete’s sake.

Parent post isn’t about any specific law, it’s about wanting to see a result and working backwards from there: my political opponents should go to jail.

Guess what will happen? The administration after that will send your politicians to jail. And the bananificiation of the US will be complete.

If you genuinely want Trump to go to jail , get Congress to create actual laws that he’d be breaking, with actual clear unmistakable language about its consequences. Raise the votes in the midterms. SCOTUS will enforce it: they have done so, every time, when Congress is clear and decisive. They have indicated as much!

The judicial branch is the only one left doing its job. The law applies. You don’t like how it looks, and you’re not alone, but it applies.

Edit: Let me rephrase: rather than try and find a single law by which to hang the executive , of which I’m sure there are a million, my impression is that for every one of them there’s a commensurate law which exonerates them. Congress keeps protecting the president. Congress is the most powerful of the three branches, by design . To genuinely see someone going to jail, From The executive branch , Congress needs to make a clear, unequivocal, statement.


> If you genuinely want Trump to go to jail , get Congress to create actual laws that he’d be breaking, with actual clear unmistakable language about its consequences. Trammel up the votes in the midterms. SCOTUS will enforce it: they have done so, every time, when Congress is clear and decisive. They have indicated as much! The judicial branch is the only one left doing its job. The law applies. You don’t like how it looks, and you’re not alone, but it applies.

So much good will here but oh so misguided. First of all, the judicial branch is not doing its job and hasn't done so in quite some time. The SCOTUS in particular is just an extension of a political party now and not judicial branch in any way. You give me a case and 99% of Americans will tell you exactly how each judge on SCOTUS will rule, 99% of the time. This is not "judicial branch is the only one left doing its job" - they are currently (not a recent thing though but now it has become comical) just an extension of a political party, nothing more and are absolutely not doing any job at all other then rubber-stamping shit based on their political dogma.

The "get Congress to create actual laws he'd be breaking" is even more comical. You think they can write laws that clearly state where the power of the Presidency stops in some sense and then legal ramifications of going over that power? C'mon mate...


I wish you made some concrete points rather than condescendingly rephrasing your opinion different ways a few times.

SCOTUS has actively thwarted the current administration’s efforts :

- tariffs

- national guard deployment

- foreign aid

- deportation of man to Salvador

These cases , as well as the cases they’ve ruled in favor of the administration , have been couched in reasoning based on the actual laws passed by congress so far. Read the majority opinions and the concurrences and it is clear that this is not some arbitrary “hey he got us here so let’s do what he wants” (In particular Gorsuch), but they’re actually basing their rulings on the written text.

Meanwhile there is a body whose literal job it is to arrange those texts. And you can elect them come fall. I don’t know how to answer your last , ostensibly rhetorical?, question , other than: yes how do you think any of the current laws got here? That’s what congress does.

Go vote in the midterms for the love of god.


Occasional rare result like that does not prove or show or even imply supreme court is not ideologically driven or heavily biased.

And suprene court justices themselves literally say so in their dissents.


Ok fair point.


1.) Supreme court literally decided that Trump can not commit crime while in the office. Full stop.

2.) Trump was convinced of felony. That does not apply to him, because he is a president.

3.) This administration ignores the courts.

> If you genuinely want Trump to go to jail , get Congress to create actual laws that he’d be breaking,

They actually did made those laws. Supreme court decided to either rewrite those law or that they simply dont matter.

> The judicial branch is the only one left doing its job. The law applies.

Not the supreme court.


> 2.) Trump was convinced of felony. That does not apply to him, because he is a president.

There are cases for which Trump should have been tried, but the NY one about mislabeling funds was not one of them. It was a massive reach, and I bet you <10% of the people clamoring about how he's now a "felon" know what he actually did wrong.

Meanwhile he pressured georgia secretary of state to "find votes", in a recorded call; he should have been tried for this but it didn't get brought to the courts. This was a failing of the executive: you cannot expect courts to rule on a matter which is never brought to them.

Half the country voted for this. At some point this is democracy in action. If you commit election fraud and somehow nobody charges you, i guess the same will apply to you. :(

The NY case had poor facts but was well fought. The Georgia case had good facts but was poorly fought.


> Half the country voted for this.

Actually, not half the country.

> At some point this is democracy in action.

Actually, no, winning election in democracy does not mean you get to be a tyrant to whome laws dont apply.

Also, seems like my point about law not applying to Trump stands entirely. None of your arguments actualy disagree with that claim.


Yes just to be clear I edited that original commnt from “there’s no law he’s breaking” to “for every such law, there’s another one which exonerates him/them”, so technically speaking I think we agree: he is breaking laws.

my impression from more closely following the actual Supreme Court (and federal) cases and reading the opinions as a total layman is that the laws and cases are rarely clear cut, nor isolated. They constantly pull in context and other laws and try and guess what congress meant. And many times the judges make very fair points. Things I thought were clear , actually aren’t. And I’m happy that they’re erring on the side of reticence when it comes to punishing the executive because that is a power that can (and will!) be used against the other side, in a constant escalation of partisanship. That was my original point.

This all is why I’ve come to the impression that a congress with a strong point of view is the most robust way out. If congress passes clear laws with unequivocal language about what should and shouldn’t happen in which specific transgressions of power, the judiciary will uphold it. They may be partisan in the details if that’s how you want to see it, but they will absolutely not ignore clear language from congress. These are still real judges.


The GPL exists for the benefit of end users, not developers. It being a chore for developers who want to deny their users the software freedoms is a feature, not a bug.


How does the GPL help a user who doesn't write code themselves?


They have the right to use the code, and they have the right to use improvements that someone else made, and they have the right to get someone to make improvements for them.


They also have the guarantee that the code licensed under the GPL, and all future enhancements to it, will remain free software. The same is not true of the MIT license's weak-copyleft.


As far as I know, all the (L)GPL does is make sure that if A releases some code under it, then B can't release a non-free enhancement without A's permission. A can still do whatever they want, including sell ownership to B.

Neither GPL nor MIT (or anything else) protects you against this.

(EDIT) scenario: I make a browser extension and release v1 under GPL, it becomes popular and I sell it to an adtech company. They can do whatever they want with v2.


By allowing them to benefit from the work of others who do. Directly or indirectly.

I’m not good at car maintenance but I would benefit from an environment where schematics are open and cars are easy to maintain by everyone: there would be more knowledge around it, more garages for me to choose from, etc.


Isn't the legal situation the opposite here? Car manufacturers don't release schematics because they believe in "free as in freedom". In fact any interfaces you as an end-user or an independent garage can use and schematics that are released such as the protocol for the diagnostic port, are open primarily because govermnents made laws saying so.

I'm most familiar with the "right to repair" situation with John Deere, which occasionally pops up on HN. The spirit of someone who releases something under GPL seems the opposite of that?


Yes I think we agree? I was even thinking specifically about John Deere but I’ve never bought a tractor so it seemed a gauche comparison :)


In context of your metaphor: what if we didn't need cars anymore?


Then we would stop checking them into our source control repositories.


Double counting the notice period is unfair IMO. You already pay for the notice period by having the notice period when you want to quit. Companies having to pay you the notice period when they fire you is symmetrical and IMO is not a severance package. Maybe that's just my assumption, but IMO a severance package is the asymmetrical pay-out when one party quits an agreement, not the communal wager you both put down when you enter the contract.

Put another way: if both parties agree on a shorter or longer notice period, I wouldn't expect that to affect any potential severance package. It's just the notice period.


What's fair is what I, my union, and my employer believe is fair. Why should it be symmetrical?


I mean fair in conversation, not in negotiation.

We're talking about worker's comp here. In this thread specifically, the UK is brought up as having generally "better" severance packages. But that's only half the story if you count things which the workers pay the companies when they're the ones quitting.

I worked in the UK, I've had to "pay" for that notice period by hanging around where I didn't want to. It's the other side of the coin which somehow doesn't get mentioned when people bring up Europe as somehow having better employee protections. They might, but notice periods ain't that.

If I had to put as much money into a company's retirement as they put in mine, I wouldn't turn around when I retire and say, wow, great comp package. No: this was a symmetrical deal we made, this time it's working out for me--in a parallel universe it's working out for you; it's a wash.

Severance packages are comp. Notice periods are just properties of the contract. They're not a severance package.

I find this an important distinction because it lets companies pull the wool over your eyes by pretending they're being generous, when really they're just paying you the exact same thing you'd have to pay them were you the one quitting. That's not a package, that's just salary.


Okay, gotcha.

Working my notice period has never be even an issue for me. It gives me an opportunity to wrap up projects, say goodbye to colleagues, etc. It's usually fairly light work as well, you're not taking on new responsibilities. I didn't even realise it could be otherwise.

The reason I'm saying it's part of the redundancy package is because (some?) companies will pay off your notice period without you having to actually work it. I've taken voluntary redundancy only once, and I was told that I would stop working at the end of the month, but I was still paid my full 3 months of notice (in addition to the tax-free redundancy payout). That was not part of the initial contract.


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