I don't think the argument was against the first part of your claim (there is a "parasitic" class, in that they are chronically unemployed and reliant on welfare) - this much is obvious at face value even outside of the Netherlands. Immigrants, by the very fact that they're people who have chosen to abandon everything they know to go to a different place, are by and large much poorer than the locals, and much less employable.
That's not really the citation needed part.
The citation needed part is:
> "who don't share our culture and consider depending on BI 'awesome' rather than shameful as Dutch people do"
This is the part that rtpg cites as being racist. You've gone from observing a fact to speculating on its causes, and the answer you've arrived at is "because they're lazier" - which as an argument is hundreds of years old and has been used against a laundry list of races. It was a key part of Social Darwinism, and one of the justifications for eugenics.
The Italians, the Irish, the Chinese, blacks in the US, etc etc, have all been subject to this argument in the past. The list goes on, and considering how common this argument is, and how frequently it has been debunked, the bar for evidence is high for many of us to be convinced.
Side note: it's frequently shocking to me how racist Europe can be to non-Europeans. And here I thought the USA had a bad case of racism - but the diversity seems to at least make people a little more aware, and the country's ugly history with it also sweeps a few common, easy-to-debunk arguments off the board. Around here the "oh, they're just lazier" argument would never go unchallenged if uttered in public, but yours is not the first time I've heard a European utter the notion as if it's the most natural conclusion in the world.
> yours is not the first time I've heard a European utter the notion as if it's the most natural conclusion in the world.
Perhaps you remember our little debate about Somalis in Finland? Do you remember losing it?
You still don't get it. Europe has no problem with immigrants who come here and support themselves and adapt to our societies, but Europe does very much have a problem with Muslim immigrants.
They come here because they know they can just waltz in and start living on welfare. But they don't want to adapt to their host countries. Instead, they want the West to adapt to them. Here's a bunch of Muslims in Sweden, being shown a video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHsTIDekFGM .. Can you guess why it started with police officers present in the room? -Why that's precisely because the organizers knew the video would make Muslims go apeshit.
And go apeshit they did. Right away. Listen to them frantically shouting "allahu akbar" and think about what's going on. What's going through their minds? Is this kind of behaviour suitable for a civilized society? What would your reaction to that video have been? Do you think it warranted raging and attacking people?
This is not about racism. It's about facing reality and seeing it for what it is, even despite our governments' efforts to hide it. Again, we have no problem with immigrants who support themselves and behave in a civilized way. It's just that we have way too many who don't.
Thank you. You seem level-headed enough about your points, and I can agree with them with the caveat they tread very close to the dividing line between politics and race.
white_devil on the other hand seems like he'd be more comfortable on Stormfront than HN.
> You seem level-headed enough about your points, and I can agree with them with the caveat they tread very close to the dividing line between politics and race
Yeah, I know. You're a bit confused. Originally you wanted to call him a racist, but then he changed his tone to be politically correct enough to make such accusations look foolish, even in the eyes of other hypersensitive sheeple.
You need to come to terms with reality. For example, the implications of a room full of Muslims going apeshit over a video should be clear to anyone, even if they reflect negatively on a group of people.
> I don't approve of generalising about religion and people like this
You may not approve of "generalizing about religion", but they did, in fact, go apeshit exactly as predicted (through a filthy generalization, no less).
> and I don't agree with the points you're trying to make.
Then perhaps you think going apeshit over a video and attacking people is suitable behaviour for a civilized society? Or perhaps your reaction would have been the same?
> The video also seems like a carefully crafted media stunt designed to make a point.
That's right. The point they successfully made was: "These people are not fit for a civilized society.".
> You've gone from observing a fact to speculating on its causes, and the answer you've arrived at is "because they're lazier"
I think you're both taking my initial comment which meant to refer to a specific subset of immigrants and interpreting it as if I meant to apply it to all immigrants.
> Yours is not the first time I've heard a European utter the notion as if it's the most natural conclusion in the world.
We indeed consider it self evident that a welfare system like ours is fragile and prone to abuse by people who intend not to contribute. That's just about acknowledging that lazy people exist everywhere and that to maintain stability of our system we need to make sure not to disproportionately attract them.
My original comment also referred to a recent public policy issue relating to a specific immigration policy (family reunion) being abused to bring large groups of people into the country who were not looking for jobs, not learning Dutch and forming insular foreign communities that structurally lived off of the welfare system.
We're talking about only a couple hundred or thousand people at most and as stated I actually believed even that was still a net-positive overall, but that is the only thing I would truly classify a parasitic class.
P.S. There is indeed plenty of racism to go around in Europe as well. Racists, like lazy people, are everywhere.
That's not really the citation needed part.
The citation needed part is:
> "who don't share our culture and consider depending on BI 'awesome' rather than shameful as Dutch people do"
This is the part that rtpg cites as being racist. You've gone from observing a fact to speculating on its causes, and the answer you've arrived at is "because they're lazier" - which as an argument is hundreds of years old and has been used against a laundry list of races. It was a key part of Social Darwinism, and one of the justifications for eugenics.
The Italians, the Irish, the Chinese, blacks in the US, etc etc, have all been subject to this argument in the past. The list goes on, and considering how common this argument is, and how frequently it has been debunked, the bar for evidence is high for many of us to be convinced.
Side note: it's frequently shocking to me how racist Europe can be to non-Europeans. And here I thought the USA had a bad case of racism - but the diversity seems to at least make people a little more aware, and the country's ugly history with it also sweeps a few common, easy-to-debunk arguments off the board. Around here the "oh, they're just lazier" argument would never go unchallenged if uttered in public, but yours is not the first time I've heard a European utter the notion as if it's the most natural conclusion in the world.