I don't understand why many people are upset about their building's facade being photographed, but are totally fine with satellite images. Or cameras getting installed everywhere and the European Union trying to get into people's phones for "security". At one point there was a debate against encryption because bad guys could benefit from it...
I think it's a uniquely German problem, because nowhere else in the EU did Google have to blur buildings. Having immigrated to Germany I can tell that Germans are pretty much privacy-obsessed, with strict regulations on CCTV (you will get in trouble if your camera points to the street) and hardly anyone having a social media account.
Not my observation. They aren't as privacy obsessed as it's made out to be, only when there's a big fuss made out of something. There's still heavy social media use which completely contradicts the privacy focus.
And yet it is one of the few places where it is mandatory to have your name on the publicly-facing postbox in order for mail to arrive. The privacy sentiment here is all over the place.
Another thing is the legal requirement to put your full name and home address on any website you own privately. Everyone I ask about this contradiction is like "Well it is like it is, so it probably has to be like that"
There's a quite significant event in Germany's history where the government abused data about it's citizens in a horrific way. They clearly learned a lesson from that.
The state keeps collecting all the data it wants, though. For example, you are mandated to declare where you live and what your religion is.
Germany only takes privacy seriously when it comes to private companies.
The state keeps collecting all the data it wants, though.
No, it really doesn't. The state always wants far more data than it collects. It's usually limited to what it actually needs. For example, the state has no reason to build it's own version of Streetview, so it doesn't, but you can be sure that someone in government would love unfettered access to all the data Google collects like the raw photos, details of wifi networks, etc (and in many countries Google probably gives them have exactly that).
If another truly evil government arises and seeks to wipeout vast numbers of their citizens, you can be absolutely certain one of the first things they'll do is to augment the data they already have with the data that's collected by private companies.
For Germany to fight against the collection of that data, and to try to limit who can access that data by paying or coercing Google, is very sensible.
I'll grant you they might want more, but they definitely require more than they _need_, like those two examples I mentioned: as long as I get its mail it's none of its business where I live, and it should definitely not have anything to do with church funding.
To be clear I'm also not defending Google. I just wish Germany had a higher standard for privacy vis-a-vis the public institutions.
They learned the what from the what?! In Germany one can definitely pinpoint you from name, surname, birth date, and address. Including the history of your addresses and any future addresses. Various credit agencies, legal predators, stalkers harvest this data like crazy.
Google has access to the pictures without the blur of faces and car plates and what not. It is very reasonable to not want a spyware company to roam your streets and record it.
Who is this hypothetical person who is upset with some types of surveillance and not others? I would imagine many Germans feel (like I do) equally uncomfortable with Street View, satellite image databases, widespread CCTV cameras in cities, etc.
If I had to guess, for Germany, you have basically two groups opposing it vocally, the die-hard privacy advocates (<5%) and the "inter-what?" group which does not understand how the internet, let alone how street-view, works (~20%).
Latter group actually argued that street-view would be used by burglars to identify possible targets in real-time. I recall on of these i***** to propose German police to patrol street-view!
With the large majority being neutral/positive on the topic, but not motivated to argue publicly against the other two groups. And so, again, the fringes win.
You treat the whole EU as if it was one single person. You heard different news over the years, but they are from different fractions of the EU and Germany.
Yes, there are weasel politicians who will jump at the opportunity to give more power to themselves and big corporations even if a poor right wing factory worker in East Germany hates big tech surveillance. Yes, you'll find people who prefer the convenience of G Street View and are willing to give up some of their privacy for that.
But there will be people who see this as one more concession to the surveillance state, so they will fight it. Give an inch and they'll take a mile. Germans remember this from Nazi Germany, WW2, and the mass surveillance of East Germany (and some now have even more paranoia after the COVID lockdowns).
So no, I don't think you'll have too many people who are seriously upset about Google "scanning" the whole country but are happy about having cameras everywhere and governments installing spyware onto our phones.
Satellite images won't show private areas. It's even hard to tell anything significant about the area besides that something is there.
> Or cameras getting installed everywhere
They follow privacy laws, don't record private areas, and are not public accessible. There are also generally less security cameras in Germany than in similar countries AFAIK.
> Satellite images won't show private areas. It's even hard to tell anything significant about the area besides that something is there.
Nowadays 15 cm (pan-sharpened from 30cm) commercial imagery of 100% of German land is readily available to any buyer who has the money. And there is even better imagery available to the major intelligence agencies.
So 100% of private areas in Germany, viewable from above, are already under observation 24/7 to a resolution capable of distinguishing chairs from people from dogs from umbrellas, etc...
That person doesn't really exist, at least not in Germany which this is about. The issue was never just Street View. Ubiquitous surveillance has been a topic for a long time, in German fashion we invented a phrase for it, "Gläserner Bürger", literally a 'glass citizen'. It's no accident we're a huge outlier when it comes to cash payments as well, people like their anonymity.
As for the encryption debate, the difference is that it is literally that, a democratic debate. There's still a difference here between trade-offs being made for national security or policing, and private firms just running circles around you to make more dollars. The latter will always cause more anger.
Credit card penetration in Germany is ~60%. Compared to ~15% in Poland. eCommerce penetration is ~77%. Presumably that doesn't involve mailing in wads of cash.
I've been seeing current pictures of my house (in Germany) and surrounding towns on Google Street View for at least four years now. They've been uploaded by some third party. No one cared in the slightest. I don't understand why this is news now.
> They've been uploaded by some third party. No one cared in the slightest. I don't understand why this is news now.
Not saying it's right or wrong but there is a big difference between some random people uploading photos every now and then VS a huge conglomerate with huge resources repeatedly mapping everything with 360 photos. I can understand why one might make the news and the other doesn't.
It's done at scale, not a random regular picture here and there. It's all 360 and almost indistinguishable from Google's material. You can only tell by the car and the logo on its roof, which hasn't been cropped out unlike Google's pictures.
It looks like that feature is going to be pretty limited in Germany. From the article:
"Google is working closely with a German government privacy agency, ensuring that its imagery meets the country’s data privacy regulations. Among them is a requirement to delete older images, which means that you won’t be able to use Street View to travel as far back in time in Germany as in other countries once the new imagery is live."
That kind of data should definitely preserved for future generations - national libraries and archives could be trustworthy guardians of such data that is only meant to be accessed again with some time delay.
Or we encrypt it very well, throw away the key, and wait for computation to catch up :)
As all Geoguessr players know, official Street View coverage in Germany was extremely limited and all very old. There was a small amount of coverage in around a dozen or so of the largest cities that dated back to the mid-2000s and that's about it. There's also various bits of crowdsourced unofficial coverage in the country which you are perhaps referring to, but it's very limited. Just go to Google Maps, look at Europe, and grab the Street View person, and you'll see.
I remember reading a newspaper article back then about a couple who explained how they just don't want to be seen on the internet. The article had photos of them in front of their house. I read it on the internet.
You insinuate that all people opposing Street View were clueless idiots, the top comment fantasizes about a surveillance-loving crowd that's just upset with Street View... talk about a discussion that's sad to see.
Thanks Tim Apple. Google would've remained hands-off until the German authorities were at their doorstep, begging for a solution, had it not been for Apple forcing their hand.
The coverage here seems to be angled somewhat. To clarify, the issue was never widespread, but rather contained to a few hundred obfuscated properties. The complication arose when a privacy uproar hit the headlines, sparking conversations about wholesale censorship and spiraling mistrust in tech giants. As a result, politicians from all sides found it convenient to lay into Google. Google's response was pretty blunt - conform to our approach or we pack up. True to their word, they exited the market. Apple, however, swooped in last year and successfully launched their own street view service in Germany without a hitch, forcing Google's hand in reconsideration.
It's brave to announce this over the summer, a classic time for minor topics dominating public discussion. So far, however, there has been no hysteria, so I guess their communication department knows what they are doing, or got lucky.
As an inexperienced and anxious driver (from a tiny suburban / village area / town), Street View (and its alternatives) are god sent to me.
I up front plan my trip, every twist and turn, especially in densely populated areas. I'm not used to driving in dense urban environments with multi-lane streets, so knowing what's gonna happen, when, and how it's going to look is immensely important to me to keep my anxiety under control.
I hope they also permit restoring addresses to street view as well. Apparently it's permanently removed in the US which is a bane for some who are trying to sell their house or have bought a house that was blurred and want it shown.
Like in other countries, it will be possible to opt out of Street View coverage with the option to pixelate your home or business. Google is starting with a blank slate, so anyone who obfuscated their house a decade ago will have to request it once more.
Of course that's possible, if only to calm the nerves of the public (I don't think there is a legal obligation). However, hardly anyone requested it for Apple's equivalent product.
Do you mean that thing that blurs a specific building? I’ve always thought that was a great example of the Streisand effect. It’s not like someone can’t walk/drive there and see it anyway.
The point of not wanting photos of you or your house spread around the internet isn't to make it physically impossible to see you, but to restrict that privilege to the people you actually (want to) physically interact with.
I wonder how it works with condos and other places where multiple unrelated people live. I assume privacy wins and if one neighbour wants it blurred then it will be blurred even if others would prefer it visible.
This is the depressing part about people fighting corporations. The corporations just keep on trying and they always win eventually. Well done Germany for setting them back a decade, though.
